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Steubenville Ten Million Times Over

I see a lot of people calling out coverage of the Steubenville rape trial for being ridiculously concerned about the effects of a rape conviction on rapists, and they’re right to be angry.

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However, there’s one thing I don’t see people talking about:

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How incredibly common it is.

I know more than a few guys who lost their virginity by bringing a girl who was black-out drunk back to their room. It was a common enough thing in college.

To be clear, I never did this–I have never even found myself in that position–but a lot of guys have. When you see news people online talking about the awful consequences for those teenage boys, understand that they’re thinking That could be me/my husband/my brother/my best friend from college.

It’s hard for people to accept the idea that they or people they care about have done evil.

Mirrored from Twenty Palaces. You can comment here or there.



( 13 comments — Leave a comment )
Mar. 20th, 2013 05:10 pm (UTC)
suspect you a word, there (blind drunk, you mean?)
Mar. 20th, 2013 05:15 pm (UTC)

Fixed. Thank you.
Mar. 20th, 2013 07:12 pm (UTC)
Thank you, because I didn't really mentally fill in the blank there, and was utterly bewildered at the idea of taking blind girls back to the dorm to have sex with them. I mean, for one thing, where were they finding all these blind girls?

(I know, I know, I know it's not funny, but I really was confused.)
Mar. 20th, 2013 07:38 pm (UTC)
I should not try to write politically sensitive posts when I have distractions all around me. It's too embarrassing.
Mar. 20th, 2013 05:16 pm (UTC)
These things are, for me, inconceivable. If I knew anyone who did that, I would have reported them.
Mar. 20th, 2013 06:00 pm (UTC)
In certain circumstances, that might make sense, but if we're talking about something that happened years before in a different state? If the victim was a girl he didn't know and wouldn't have been able to recognize the next day let alone long after graduation?

Mar. 20th, 2013 06:07 pm (UTC)
I'd be strongly tempted to, yes. The practicalities might prevent me from so doing, especially if we're talking decade-scale time. Your describing this and saying "it was a common enough thing in college" sounded like it was something you personally knew about in college, so that was the basis of my reaction.
Mar. 20th, 2013 06:17 pm (UTC)
My college experience was different from the experience of most everyone I know, both friends, acquaintances, and people I despised. I lived at home with my parents, took classes during the day, did chores plus homework plus TV time in the evening. Everyone else I knew moved away from home for college.

It was only later (or the times I would hit the road to visit old high school friends) that I understood what most of them considered a typical college party experience, which was binge drinking, heavy drug use, and waking up someplace strange.

I stopped visiting them when I woke up one morning miles and miles from the last place I remembered being, which was the middle of a raging party, and my buddy explained that I had driven them all there in my car. They told me I did all sorts of things I didn't remember, and it scared the shit out of me.
Mar. 20th, 2013 06:36 pm (UTC)
That's the way I went to college, at least for most of it.

I've never been drunk, never would have gone to such parties, so if such things were going on in my colleges I would admittedly been extremely unlikely to ever have known.
Mar. 21st, 2013 02:38 am (UTC)
"It’s hard for people to accept the idea that they or people they care about have done evil."

Except when you've grown up with it all your life. Personally, I have a hard time believing that any one ever does good.

I guess that those people you speak of must have a lot of privilege, to grow up in circumstances where people love them and they can harbor such delusions as you mention in the quote. At times it seems that the only allowable topics when speaking of privilege are gender, race and sexuality but imho it's a hell of a privilege to have people who love you, at all, to have EVER been loved, and I sometimes wish that those of us who never knew such a thing, such as those of us who went through serious child abuse were included in the conversations.

I know, it's not the normative experience, and it's certainly not the "in" thing to discuss now, but it can suck greatly to grow up with serious child abuse (not the "my daddy didn't buy me a pony" variety but the "when I was five my daddy beat me 'til bones broke and gave me one children's asprin and then sent me out to do chores before waiting a couple of days before I finally got to see a doctor" sort. Or the "he sometimes put bullets in a gun and put it down my throat and pulled the trigger in a game called Russian Roulette" kind).

I wish that we lived in a world where violence against ANYbody was considered bad, where taking advantage of ANYbody was thought wrong, especially if they're defenseless, but not just then. As if we, idk, thought that every person, no matter their advantages or disadvantages, privileges or not, had worth because they were a person. I guess that the support for certain groups is a step in the right direction, but imho it's only a step and still leaves a lot of people out.

Sorry for the long post. I know in my head it's a worthy thing to support the victims of date rape, many of whom are flat out raped without even a "date" aspect to it, and you should be commended for doing so. It just sometimes feels incredibly common that people take for granted something, that they can believe in another person to begin with, that in truth is a tremendous blessing.
Mar. 21st, 2013 08:46 am (UTC)
I'm sorry you had to go through that abuse.

There are people in the world worthy of trust. I can only hope you can find your way to learning how.

Good luck.
Mar. 21st, 2013 08:18 am (UTC)
It’s hard for people to accept the idea that they or people they care about have done evil.

Yep. This kind of commentary isn't actually uncommon, and I don't think it has that much to do with victim-blaming. I've seen the same thing recently with a few prominent news cases where someone "young and promising" (in other words, someone who looks and acts just like your friend or kid...) has, through common bad behavior, got into a lot of trouble. Drunk driving, running red lights on a bike, and attending a drug-filled music festival are the current examples I can think of. In two cases, these "promising young people" killed someone else, and in the third she killed herself.
Mar. 21st, 2013 08:53 am (UTC)
Personally, I was thinking of the way people go apeshit when you point out they've done something racist, but yeah. I know that person isn't a benediction.
( 13 comments — Leave a comment )

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  • 14 Jan 2019, 21:47
    Oh, yeah, excellent point.
  • 14 Jan 2019, 21:46
    Oh yeah. Like the lawyers who get obvious really venal criminals off because it makes their success rate look good. But those are not the ones I am referring to in meaning well. These guys are mixed…
  • 14 Jan 2019, 20:37
    This reminds me of the time my wife was injured and the insurance guy handling her case did everything possible to deny and stall the payment. We had to put her surgery on a credit card because this…
  • 14 Jan 2019, 19:24
    The creepiest part is that some of them are actually well meaning.
  • 14 Jan 2019, 19:08
    Yeah. It's godawful what people will do when they have authority and no fear about using it.
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